tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32412760.post4820207100485416011..comments2023-06-16T11:59:53.479-04:00Comments on Hoosier Beer Geek: A Beer Blog for Indiana, from Indianapolis: Commentary/Conversation: Ruminations of the Potable CurmudgeonJimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17412784462353586629noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32412760.post-26891055085218978662012-05-09T07:16:09.843-04:002012-05-09T07:16:09.843-04:00"Maybe he should focus on his own beers."..."Maybe he should focus on his own beers."<br /><br />Obviously, Internet comments do not always reflect intended subtlety and intonation. Choosing my words with more care: I'm refraining from interpreting this comment as snarky, as though suggesting that my focus somehow does not fall on my own beers. <br /><br />Rest assured it does. Thank you for bringing this problem to our attention, although we've already spent quite a lot of time investigating what appears to be an infuriatingly random issue, sparing neither brewing process nor bottling technique, and neither bottling machine nor the bottles themselves. <br /><br />As noted, albeit belatedly, there are reasons apart from infection and carbonation that can prompt this unwelcome phenomenon. Happily, we have been able to rule out Al Qaeda as the source. <br /><br />Cheers.The New Albanianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10757531658514051905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32412760.post-35862838304251740302012-05-08T13:18:04.268-04:002012-05-08T13:18:04.268-04:00Actually it was part of there bottling machine was...Actually it was part of there bottling machine was not clean. Over carbonation is not the only reason for a bottle to explode. http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Can_beer_bottles_explode%3FDustyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15335511110474906920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32412760.post-65678441707614766802012-05-07T12:20:52.078-04:002012-05-07T12:20:52.078-04:00I love honest and constructive feedback. Stop by o...I love honest and constructive feedback. Stop by our tasting room and let us know what you think.<br /><br />If you would like an example of how not to give feedback to a brewer see the post accusing NABC of having "infected bottles" and then go on to state its an issue with carbonation due to the bottling machine, this just makes you look like an ass. Get your facts straight before making any sort of accusations.<br /><br />If you're going to give feedback make sure that it is objective and not subjective or speculation. <br /><br />Josh<br />Flat 12Josh Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16559480846905953125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32412760.post-4325524292885581792012-05-04T21:49:07.746-04:002012-05-04T21:49:07.746-04:00I really enjoyed reading this conversation as well...I really enjoyed reading this conversation as well as all of the previous comments, and it seems that one of the overarching themes is regarding the feedback loop with beer and what purpose it may serve. <br /><br />If you think a beer is truly bad, is it constructive to relay that thought to the brewers? How should that be communicated? Reviews? Direct communication? Will that be productive (basically, will anything be done with it)? Essentially, is it possible to give feedback to breweries other than simply sales figures/economic indicators?Rebecca Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12497723186405103552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32412760.post-7238807013711754772012-05-03T16:05:50.196-04:002012-05-03T16:05:50.196-04:00I have been drinking craft beer for a few years. I...I have been drinking craft beer for a few years. I would consider myself a newb next to any of you. My knowledge of the Hoosier beer scene is one taken in from that of any average Joe. I do not know the brewers, the owners, or the power players. That being said, while I appreciate the honesty of your posts, I don't get it. Why does this have to be a movement? If you are fed up with the scene, then move away from it. Go back to just enjoying a nice beer with friends. Beer doesn't have to be anything more than that.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14019908544280670472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32412760.post-2688560587635650552012-05-03T14:25:57.989-04:002012-05-03T14:25:57.989-04:00It's a problem with there bottling machine. C...It's a problem with there bottling machine. Cavalier knows all about it.Dustyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15335511110474906920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32412760.post-8560884315216696482012-05-03T12:29:10.424-04:002012-05-03T12:29:10.424-04:00This is the first I've heard of exploding bott...This is the first I've heard of exploding bottles. And is that an infection problem, anyway? That would be overcarbonation, wouldn't it?Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12047590428827738771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32412760.post-27335194627461373752012-05-03T11:41:06.721-04:002012-05-03T11:41:06.721-04:00I must be naive - I always think that the bad beer...I must be naive - I always think that the bad beers are a result of a bad recipe (or lack of recipe formulation testing) rather than a process failure. I mean, if I can brew batch after batch IN A DIRTY GARAGE WITH A PROPANE BURNER and rarely if ever have any problems with sanitation or fermentation gone awry, I just assume anyone who calls themselves a professional brewer with "real" equipment can do it better. I do, however, question how there are so many beers being produced in Indiana that simply do not taste good. How is it possible that someone has an investment of hundreds of thousands of dollars and they produce beers that range from dull/mundane to downright yucky? Who is telling them that this beer is good? I usually just leave some "constructive criticism" on Yelp. It's sad that you can go buy "Brewing Classic Styles" and make beer that's better than most of the beer being sold in the local market. It's not rocket science, it's just beer, it's hundreds of years old. It's not that hard to make a great beer and put your own unique spin on it. It's much harder to get the business side of it right.Duster72https://www.blogger.com/profile/12058903703210496726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32412760.post-72247573292024516972012-05-03T11:32:58.732-04:002012-05-03T11:32:58.732-04:00Maybe he should focus on his own beers. Some bott...Maybe he should focus on his own beers. Some bottles of Hoptimus and Bonfire of the Valkyries are infected. Either gushing or exploding on the shelves.Dustyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15335511110474906920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32412760.post-1464629872513748852012-05-03T08:47:24.949-04:002012-05-03T08:47:24.949-04:00I think once you lose the ability to call a spade ...I think once you lose the ability to call a spade a spade, you lose a lot of credibility. Sure, you don't want to hurt people's feelings or businesses, and you may have personal relationships with them, but doesn't that make criticism even more important? Any friend that can't handle me calling them an idiot when they deserve it won't be around me for long. And if I know my friend is putting a bad product out to a wider audience, it's really my duty to tell them <b>before</b> they lose face. I stopped writing reviews a long time ago because I don't feel I add anything interesting to the millions of other reviews, but I've taken my complaints directly to brewers in the past. Luckily, I don't feel like I need to say something often.<br /><br />But if we want to talk about "losing our religion", I'm on board. I still think the greatest part of the problem is the focus on rare. Waiting lists and secret back room supplies of beer are fucking lame. I shouldn't have to know the secret handshake to get the latest Founders offering. Of course retailers have gotten this way due to assholes hoarding beer instead of being decent human beings and saying "I know the demand on this is crazy, so I'm going to take one and leave plenty for others." Any thing we can do to get these jerks to move on to Vodka or Rum, let's do it now. Keep them away from the Bourbon though, that's already just as stupid.howardfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04525347214948042914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32412760.post-28006457119353399002012-05-03T05:52:36.450-04:002012-05-03T05:52:36.450-04:00At the end of the day I just try to remind myself ...At the end of the day I just try to remind myself its beer. Yes being on the other side of the jockey boy and on the first tier of distribution has changed my perspective dramatically over the last couple of years, but I still love beer.<br />I think what Mike wrote about the castle not turning out the way you want it was great, the decision now is to live in the castle because its comfortable and safe and stable, or build a new one that is exactly what you want. <br /><br />Either way, I value what you guys do, and appreciate it a lot. I think like Darren said, publicly trashing something isn't a good idea, 99% of the people drinking a beer won't pick up astrigency from sparge issues, or diacytle, but if you do, discussing them with the brewer can't hurt, but as stated above, it takes tact as our beers are like our babies. Just remember that to most people these things won't even be noticed. Almost everyone I have met is in this industry to make great beer and is always looking to improve their products, but many of those same people can be very touchy and have to be handled with kid gloves as not to harm any egos. But remember, its just beer....Josh Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16559480846905953125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32412760.post-3232602858719013772012-05-02T21:59:46.000-04:002012-05-02T21:59:46.000-04:00I'm impressed and flattered to have inspired t...I'm impressed and flattered to have inspired this level of discourse. Really. I'm not just doing soft shoe in saying that. Maybe I'm just having a beer-life crisis.The New Albanianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10757531658514051905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32412760.post-14101364406044329352012-05-02T21:58:45.194-04:002012-05-02T21:58:45.194-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.The New Albanianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10757531658514051905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32412760.post-50819754100423905312012-05-02T19:46:12.979-04:002012-05-02T19:46:12.979-04:00Interesting read guys. I'm not normally one t...Interesting read guys. I'm not normally one to post on things like this but you all got my brain going. As a "craft beer" noob, just getting into things over the last 2 years I do look at "experts" on line and at the liquor store as well as rating sites at times to see if the beer I saw at the liquor store is worth my money. I would say that obviously you take other people's ratings/tastings with a grain of salt as not everyone likes the same stuff. However, if you see where enough people are saying bad things about a beer, I'm going to be much less likely to spend my hard earned money on it. Thus, I hope that people that are putting their thoughts out publicly would be doing so in an honest way. There's no need to bash the beer or the brewery, but even a simple "not for me" "too sour" "too boozy" or whatever would work. Hell, even saying we tried beer X and not then saying anything would speak volumes. <br /><br />I also feel that keeping a level of honesty and not censoring your opinions could help newer breweries to some extent. If they are just getting into brewing new styles and something is just not "right" with it, an "expert" taster's opinion and constructive criticism could help push them in the right direction. Ulimately for them, poor sales would tell them the most, but a few tips/hints along the way would help them make a product that more people are likely to enjoy.<br /><br />Another fear I have is that if bloggers always said great things about a brewery or a beer, it would set up a false sense of awesomeness and hype. This could then falsely up that breweries sales, creating the crazy supply/demand hype that I don't think anyone into craft beers enjoys.<br /><br />I'm sure it's tough for you guys to walk the line of not pissing off brewers and being true to your readers but I'd say that tactful honesty should be the key. Like you said, you should treat blogging just like drinking a beer with your friends. Just cyber friends sharing really good beers and warning each other of not great beers.Brett Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18137203430810519851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32412760.post-40997537743250220022012-05-02T16:36:55.901-04:002012-05-02T16:36:55.901-04:00WTF? Are you guys serious or is it April Fools Da...WTF? Are you guys serious or is it April Fools Day...wait that was a month ago! I generally disagree with the philosophical musings, other than the part about sending out shitty beer because it's too expensive to dump. The real question I keyed into is this: Do brewers actually accidentally produce swill and then sell it, despite knowing that it's not their best product? I'm sure it happens, but my guess is that they're not proud of it. Is this wrong or just a nuance of the business model?<br /><br />Do I like dumping bad beer? Hell no. Have I drank beer that I should've dumped...well, probably (as much as I could stomach anyway). Have I served beer to friends that I didn't particulalry think was as good as it could be? Yes. Do I feel bad about it? Hell no (sometimes, one man's shitty belgian is another woman's favorite beer ;) Bottom line about it is that was one night, one batch, one time...No one aspires to this, for we collectively WOULD be backing away from the excellent craft beer renaissance of which we're a part.<br /><br />Whoever thinks they can create perfection 100% of the time, especially with some of the start-ups lacking legitimate institutional experience, is just setting themselves up for a surprise. It happens. The important part is learning something from it and growing stronger.j . j .https://www.blogger.com/profile/09001986729410659816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32412760.post-85002421848560838632012-05-02T16:33:37.459-04:002012-05-02T16:33:37.459-04:00I don't think we can blame hipsters for this. ...I don't think we can blame hipsters for this. <br /><br />We can blame ourselves as much as anything. Everybody is the new guy at some point, and <b>there's nothing wrong with being the new guy</b>! Hell, I hope this site is a valuable resource for the new guy. We don't own this "thing" any more than anyone else. <br /><br />And don't we want better beer to be popular anyway? It leads to <b>more better beer</b>. <br /><br />If anything, I'm mourning that fact that we can't keep up with it all anymore. And that I'm not sure that I need to.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12047590428827738771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32412760.post-64153916837353684792012-05-02T16:27:52.418-04:002012-05-02T16:27:52.418-04:00Nobody needs to openly bash any particular brewers...Nobody needs to openly bash any particular brewers or their beer. When I am asked what I think about another brewers beer by that brewer, I ask them if they want my honest opinion. If they do, and there is a problem with it, then I'll tell them that is the case. But then I also try to help them solve whatever the problem may be. It probably goes back to working at Great Fermentations for 10 years. If we all try to help fix the bad beer, then that means better beer for all of us.Darrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16470477879294878190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32412760.post-33291914129378774242012-05-02T15:52:27.984-04:002012-05-02T15:52:27.984-04:00We bore the fine readers of this blog all the time...We bore the fine readers of this blog all the time!rodneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06280976642258884193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32412760.post-84635410719026486022012-05-02T15:51:42.480-04:002012-05-02T15:51:42.480-04:00I totally agree with Matt. For me it came to a hea...I totally agree with Matt. For me it came to a head while volunteering at this year's BIG Winterfest. After a guy walked by me that looked like a cross between Von Kaiser (Mike Tyson's Punch-Out) and a steam punk character from Gen Con, I looked at my best friend and said "F&$*, the hipsters found us." Craft beer has become the "in" thing for a certain pretentious demographic and they have soured it for the rest of us.Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01588010974281245625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32412760.post-47868889582130765782012-05-02T14:19:37.205-04:002012-05-02T14:19:37.205-04:00Loved the exchange between all of you. A theme I p...Loved the exchange between all of you. A theme I picked up here, and in Roger's post, is about 'craft beer' generally. I have a lot of thoughts on the subject - not least of which is my dislike of 'craft beer' as a phrase and ideology - but I won't bore the fine readers of this blog. Frankly, talking about 'craft beer' itself is boring. To Matt's point, I much prefer enjoying great beer with friends and strangers alike. Beer is part of the thing, not *the* thing.Scott Daffornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13364236318957712352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32412760.post-66712991337134514942012-05-02T13:49:09.695-04:002012-05-02T13:49:09.695-04:00I fully understand the points your making here. I ...I fully understand the points your making here. I am only 3 years into craft beer drinking so it is still all very new to me. I also hope that this experience doesn't end the same way it did for me with cigars. I was heaving into cigars for years, loved everything about them. Then I got a job at a cigar store and that all ended. Day after day, working and or being around the industry you love so much slowly destroys what it once was for you. I haven't found a good way to middle ground it either. I still can't force myself to be passionate about the culture/industry I was so involved in. I just hope I can keep this one from doing the same.<br /><br />-indybeerblogAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com